Holy MatriMONEY: Faithful Finance for Couples

PREVIOUSLY SHARED EPISODE #5

Do you ever wonder how your religious values and upbringing shape the way you handle money in marriage? Tanisha Allen joins us on Yahweh's Money to discuss the complexities of marriage and finances. She shares her perspective on developing a "God's Money First" mindset and the importance of communication in overcoming the taboo of discussing money.

We also reveal how shared values, faith, trust, and common goals can help couples in the long run, while acknowledging the challenges that can arise when values and beliefs don't align. Our conversation delves into the role of the breadwinner. Including, balancing responsibilities and how resentment can build if one partner takes on more of the financial burden. 

If you have already listened to this episode, tune in again to get more insight.  If listening for the first time, learn how to have meaningful money conversations in your marriage and achieve harmony with your spouse in managing your finances.

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Our podcast is proudly sponsored by Crusaders for Change, LLC (C4C) and hosted by our CEO and Founder, Mrs. Shay Cook. At C4C, we provide customized corporate financial wellness programs for businesses, government agencies, and nonprofit organizations. Our services are tailored to create happier, healthier, and more productive work environments. We also empower individuals and couples to overcome debt, improve their credit, boost savings, and more. Ready to learn more about how C4C can impact your life? Contact us today at https://www.crusaders4change.org/!

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Music by:
Lamonte Silver - Owner of essentialmusicclub.com | Previously by ROA - roa-music.com

Chapters

• 0:05 Managing Money in Marriage
• 9:01 Money Conversations Before Marriage
• 14:07 Financial Conversations in Relationships
• 22:25 Navigating Finances in Marriage
• 30:56 Values and Money in Marriage
• 39:48 Balancing Responsibilities in Marriage
• 48:38 Managing Money in Marriage

Transcript

Shay 0:39 
Welcome to another episode of Yahweh's money, the crossroads of religion and money today, we're gonna be talking about managing money and our marriages, or in a marriage, it’s super excited about this conversation. We have our co-host here, Vanessa, as well as our guest Tanisha Allen, who is a friend, a military spouse homemaker, an accredited financial counselor candidate, and has a personal small business and a professional organizer and a book reviewer. So welcome to the show Tanisha.   

Tanisha 1:11
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. 

Shay 1:15
Awesome. Awesome. So we're like I said, we're gonna get into a conversation about marriage and money. This is a taboo top topic. A lot of people do not wanna talk about marriage and money when we're helping couples. Usually, the main issue it's communication, it's not even about money, but we're gonna get into some of the questions around money and marriages. So, including who should be managing it, should it be your money, my money, or our money, or is it God's money? Why do we, or our finances bring such discord in a marriage? And if a breadwinner does that mean if I am the breadwinner, does that mean that I get to make the majority of the financial decisions, and wherever the spirit moves us, we're gonna talk about it with marriage and money? So the first question is, how should money in a marriage be managed? Should it be your money, my money, our money, God's money? While in Genesis 2:4, it says that is why a man leaves his father and mother, and is United to his wife and they become one flesh. So how do our values religious be beliefs and or childhood shape the way we deal with finances in our household? Tanisha?

Tanisha 2:28
All of that impacts our finances, it's specifically how we were raised and how our parents handled money. , whether they talked to us about money or they didn't talk to us about money. We usually internalize a lot of those behaviors and beliefs, and we bring that into marriage with us, and since marriage is two people coming together, now you have almost four different opinions about marriage between two people, and it just, you know, It's difficult because you're already married. You're already trying to learn each other, love each other, and all of that. And then you bring something in there that like you said, is taboo marriage or money, rather, we don't talk about money. It's something that is a secret and it's swept under the rug. And, you know, we don't talk about what we have or anything like, and we kind of take that with us in the marriage, and we kind of try to not have those conversations. But my personal belief is that it's all God's money, to begin with, and he just allows us to manage it. And because of that, then we have to manage it with our spouse. So for us, our religious belief comes in that we follow the Bible when it comes to how money is spent and how we are to handle money, and you know, we just thank God for every penny basically. And we, you know, especially large purchases, we seek his decisions. But yeah, that me, my money mindset, or your money mindset, I have not seen that work efficiently yet. , there's usually always some type of like, under current, you know, whether it's a communication issue, it's a selfish issue or whatever, it comes out in different ways. Whereas most people that I know that do the our money follow or God's money followed by our money. it normally works quite well and finances are normally not their main issue. 

Vanessa  04:24
So I have to say, I love that. I've, I've never heard that God's money first, with the relationship. So  I love that thinking about it that way because I think that puts everybody, you know, in the right head space and mindset to talk about it because it's not yours or mine, it's, you know, it's, it's his, and then ours. I was raised in a household where my mother made more money than my father, which was kind of unusual, but she always had the philosophy of each of them had their own money, and then they had a pot together and that, you know, worked for them, but I think with most, you know, couples and relationships, every couple is different. So it's so hard to find one. Thing that fits all these situations because of personalities. And usually, there's a spender and a saver, in a relationship. So I think there's so many ways to look at this and just finding the right combination, is something we all have to do. But I think one thing we can all do is make sure that it's God's money first. I love that. 

Shay 5:25 
Exactly I love that too. And growing up, it was definitely a more traditional household where the father made more money. The mom was there to support the kids, take care of house and home, but also it was taboo. And I don't think that was a hiccup Tanisha marriages, taboo these days for a lot of people. So that's another episode but, but when it comes into managing money and marriage and money, I was always told that you were supposed to be a joint account or it was, you know, the man, the man, the man, the, you know, was in charge of things. So as my husband and I got married, we decided to do separate accounts. And that was like, oh my God, who are you to have separate accounts? That was so. Such a stigma, such a taboo topic. Like I wouldn't share it with anybody for like pray the first 15 years of marriage. Like not like I needed to share it anyways. None of your business, but I mean, but people were like, oh, you have separate accounts. Oh, what is that about? I'm like, well, that's what works for us. I mean, we had to joint account for like the mortgage and childcare and stuff, but I mean, it just works for us till this day. I always tell people we don't have any hardly any you know, arguments around money because we had it, you know, figured out from the very beginning, what works best for us is for us. It's not about the world and everybody else's idea of your money, my money, our money it's about what works best for us. But I agree it should be God's money first. Now that's a conversation that my husband and I  don't necessarily, I wouldn't say we don't agree on, we both serve the same God, but you know, sometimes it's, it's, that's, has some issues with that situation, but, I agree with that it's God's money and then whatever works for you and it's balance in your household is how it should work.

Tanisha 7:13
So, yeah. And I will say that having the joint account, is I think what is important because what I see that doesn't work is when marriages are treated like a roommate situation. So it's like, oh, the mortgage is this much here. I'll give you half and you know, you'll take your half and then pay the mortgage. When you have a joint pot that takes care of the household.  that works out much better. So, and I think that the way that my husband and I handle it is of course all of our money goes into our joint account. And then, because we are very specific about the goals that we set, we know, okay, personally, we wanted to have. I hate to use the word allowance because it's such a negative term when you say it with adults but because we've decided on it and we've agreed upon it. We've given ourselves personally an allowance that this is how much money that we would like to spend this month in order to allow all of the other money to accomplish our goals, whether that's saving, paying off debt, retirement, or anything like that. But that's also because we are very connected when it comes to that bigger pot of money. We know exactly what it is that we want that pot to go to. And, you know, we decided we can make sacrifices when it comes to what we personally spend and then of course, if there's a month that doesn't work that way, that's where we have the conversation and say, okay, Hey, I need a little bit more money. Is that okay? You know, are you good with that? Or, if I see that he's spending more money or he's getting close to his, limit, then it's like, okay, babe, do you need more money this month? Like, is this something that we need to reevaluate? Do we need to change the, you know, budget amount for this category? And it's all about the conversation. I know. So I grew up in, I guess, technically a single-parent household. , my parents were separated for most of my life and my dad was really great with money and my mom was not. And so my dad was the one that taught me about money. And then of course my mom's lessons were what really not to do. And I just knew that they, they never taught me anything about who should be managing the money or anything like that. It was just the this is how you handle money. And it was always directed towards me. It was never a conversation of if you get married and that's probably because they weren't married, they weren't together. So they didn't feel to pass that on, and whereas Chris's parents, they both were married, but his dad handled everything and, but they didn't pass that on to him. He didn't care.  like, you know, when, when we first got married, he was just like, okay, you handle finances better because you're in the finance industry, you do it. And that we kind of took it that way until I realized no, like, we need to really handle everything together.

Vanessa 10:11
So I love that thought though, about having a joint account. I think so many people, you know, they think, oh, well, I'm gonna have my money. The other person's gonna have their money, but you know, same as you I've seen so many times where, you know, I'm working with a couple and one will say, oh, well, I gave the other person money to pay the bills or I gave, and you know, when you look at it that way, it's like, whoa, wait a minute. You didn't give you live in this household too. The groceries pay for, you know, the food that you eat, so I think having that joint account, so you're both putting in towards your household together, means that, you know, you are more connected like you were saying. So, you know, I've seen, like I said, so many times people are like, oh, well I gave this person money or I'm giving the money for the kids, but it's like, no, no, no, no, you have to have that household, you know, goal together, since it is your household together, 

Shay 11:06
Yeah, no, that's good. That's good. So, but what about before marriage? You know, what are some of the values about money that couples should discuss prior to getting married? I think that all aligns with what we're saying before we begin in touch conversation about joint accounts, separate accounts, you know, how are we gonna pay for the household? Shouldn't we be having some conversations about merging those bank accounts, debt, savings, financial goals? Me thinking back right now. I don't, I don't think my husband really had any conversations about buddy. It just went into it. And then I brought all the stuff from my parent's marriage into my marriage, and that took a few years for us to sort out and he would point it out. He's like that worked for your mom and dad, that doesn't work for us. So we had to, you know, really have conversations about what works for us, when it comes around money. But what kind of conversations, or should you have conversations around this money before? You know, you get married. 

Tanisha: 11:59
Yes, definitely because it is a major aspect of not only marriage but just our lives in general. Money is so important, especially over here in America, where we are just, full of consumerism, right? Like we are all about what we can spend and what we can buy and what we can show off and all of that. And, you know, having two spenders in a marriage, may not be the most healthiest thing. So it's like, we need to talk about this and we, the best time to talk about it is before marriage. Honestly, I feel like also before an engagement, because this is the type of information you wanna know, like, do I wanna marry this person or not? But it is, you know, talking about almost everything. How are you gonna combine the bank accounts? If you're gonna do that, who's gonna handle the money, the majority of the time, talking about our history? Is there anything in your history, money related that I need to know about? You know, what does your credit look like? How much debt are you in? you know, maybe even coming up with some type of scenarios, like if we ever get into this situation, how would you handle this? Or how would you advise that we handle this, in order to make sure that you're either on the right page together, and if you're not then, okay, is this something that we can come together and create our response to, or create how we wanna handle it? And I mean, honestly, it's one of those things where if you can't agree, If that's the time where it's like, okay, is this the right person for me? You know, is there other things that might be an issue? because finances are such a major part of our lives and we need to be comfortable with it, and we need to be comfortable talking to our spouse or our future spouse about it. If we're not comfortable talking to them about it. I mean, that's a bigger issue so. 

Vanessa 13:51
Yeah, I feel like too, you know, money is still taboo and none of us were really taught to talk about these things. So, you know, having that conversation with ourselves, let alone with another person, is not something that we were really, you know, prepared for. You know, I am divorced and you know, my husband, my first husband, and I, we got married super quick, was military spouse during, you know, the surge in oh, got married on the third date. And then he deployed for a year and a half. So I was left to manage this new household, too, you know, by myself and, you know, he was away. So we never had those conversations and talks. And that's something that I think, you know if we would've done that in the beginning, and not rush things so much that, you know, we could have, you know, we could have made things work a little bit easier. you know, because, you know, we were newly married, new careers, that type of thing. And then throwing money on top of. That's a lot to handle. And I think you're right. If we can have those conversations, talk about it beforehand, then we are better prepared, you know, for later on and we're on the same page. And I know that in my dating life lately, that's something that I look at, you know, I talk to, you know, somebody in the first few dates about, you know, Their goals. And, you know, I look at what they have or they don't have, not because I'm greedy, but because I want someone with similar values as me and someone that I know that if we are together for the long haul, that they can take care of me if something happens and I can take care of them. So I think these are super important conversations. And unfortunately, we don't think about it until later on. 

Shay 15:29
Yeah, because we're all lusting or in love and we're blinded  I always tell my husband, I got married, very young, been married, I think 23 years now. And got married at 20 and he was 21, 22. And yeah, I was worried about was I was super attracted to him. Lusting love in him. And that's all I was worried about. Like getting outta my parent's house.  let me be real. That's what I was. I was not thinking about money. Wasn't thinking about children, which I got pregnant six months later. Like I wasn't to thinking about any of that. And so now I'm like I told my daughter who's 21 was like, you need to have these conversations or if you're not, I'm gonna have with your significant other, like, what do you think about children? What do you think about money? Because then I always tell people don't get married in your twenties. Cause you're still learning yourself. I did not know who I was and now I'm marrying somebody else who doesn't know who we were. A boy and girl getting married. We had no clue. We then we, our first duty station was Germany. We went over there and I mean, yeah, it was just a crazy we made some major mistakes with money, with relationships, lack of communication. The list goes on. Thank God we had some, a base values cuz we would not be together if we did not. So we believed in God, we believed in, you know, love relationships, family trust, you know, those kind of things were of values that we had so we can align. Financially, if we didn't have that, we would not be together today. And I think that's what happens with a lot of people. They're so into the attraction, the lust, and the love. And then when you get married, now you're joining two people together. As God says, you mother and father, you leave your mother and father, and now you're united and his wife and husband, and become one flesh, which is a whole nother conversation as well, because I believe you're still two fleshes coming together but, that's my own interpretation, but when it comes to the money, That's definitely, it's hard to have those conversations. I mean, I believe everybody needs to go through some kind of financial counseling before they get married, to be honest, 

Tanisha 17:29
Totally agree all types of counseling, just go down the list. 

Shay 17:34
Mental, everything. Yeah. 

Vanessa 17: 38
And you know, we still live in this world too, where, you know, we see so many fairy tales and love will conquer all and everything will work out in the end. And, you know, we see all this and we don't see that you know, You have a spouse who hides credit card purchases from you. You know, I have a cousin and for years his wife would make purchases and before he would get home, you know, she would stash them away, you know, from her private account, you know, I had my ex-husband stole $22,000 from our bank account, before our divorce. So, you know, you don't know how to handle these situations because you know, you're just, you're so in love and you think, you know, you're gonna have that fairy tale. 

Shay 18:20
Then reality hits in you like, oh shoot.  this is real out in these streets. You know, marrying somebody, who's bringing all the baggage, you know, they have to your relationship. Wait a minute. I have baggage too. I'm bringing all the baggage I have to this situation. We're trying to sort through all that baggage and talk about money and talk about in-laws and talk about where we're gonna live and talk about children and talk about estate planning and life. You know, it's so much professional careers and all the other stuff that comes with that situation. I mean, who wants to talk about money? You're just tired thinking about it. you know, man. And so why do finances bring such the score to a marriage? We kind of discussed that already, but Jesus said, and Matthew 20 12, 25, a household divided against his self will not stand. And according to divorce.net, financial incompatibility is one of the top reasons. As we've heard many times over the couple's divorce citing that 40%. And I believe this is higher of couple's divorce due to the way their ex-spouse handled money. I've heard it's been up upwards of 50 and 60%. And then Philippians 2: 3-4  says, “Do nothing outta selfish ambition or vain conceit, rather in humility, value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interest, but each of you to the interest of the others. So based off of this, how could we, or why is there such discord in a marriage 

Tanisha 19:50
Because there's discord in the world about money, there's just this, you know, we have this way that think, we think that the more money we have, the happier we will be, we know that. You know, up to a certain dollar amount that may be true, but anything over that dollar amount, we're, we're no more happier than we were before. And because the world is, I won't, I won't speak for the world cause not everybody in the world is like this, but because the us is very money hungry and we, are very vain and all about vanity. That gets ingrained in us, especially in this day and age of social media, where we're seeing everybody's highlight real and we're able to see like everybody's best. And, you know, it's like, well, I wanna show you what I have and I just bought this new car and I just took this trip and I did this and did that. And you know, in your head, if you're not able to do all of that, it's like, how can I do all of that? Okay. I need to take out credit cards. I need to do this. I need to do that. I need to move some money around. and we take that and we take that into our marriages. We, you know, as we wanna keep up with the Joneses, I will speak from personal experience we decided to build our house. I decided to build a house, we were married and I knew that I always wanted to be a homeowner and Chris was just like, okay, we can own a home. That's no problem. So then I said, okay, I well, wanna build a home. I don't wanna buy a, a home that somebody's already lived in. He's like, okay, if you wanna build a home, then let's go. And we had a budget that we had set. Because I wanted my house to look a certain way, which I, where I, I didn't have like a person in mind that I was copying, but I definitely had like an aesthetic in mind. I wanted it to look a certain way and feel a certain way because of something that I've seen in the past and that's how I built my house. And here it is six or seven years later and I'm just like, you know, what did we need all of these rooms for just the two of us do I like cleaning all of this house every single week? like, there's so many things that I'm just like, you know if I could go back and do it over again, with what I know, I wouldn't get such a, a big house for the two of us. Like we, it's just the two of us and I think of how much money we could have saved, you know, what? We could have done the trips that we could have taken all of that, the experiences. That we could have had instead of focusing on, okay, we need to make sure we pay the mortgage and the light bill, all of that. , but I really believe that, I think that's why also, you know, in the Bible it tells us that, the love of money is the root of all evil, and I believe that that. It just goes right into our marriages. If we have this, fascination with how much money we're making and we want to, be the highest earner and we wanna do all of these things, then where does love or where does communication or just making sure that we're comfortable with each other, like where do all of those rank, if all we're focused on is how much money do you make? How much money do I make? Well, you need to be making more money because you're not bringing in enough. , those are, you know, just things that we need to focus on. And, tho that's by having those conversations early on, and then if you're already married and you're already struggling with your finance, Then it's time to sit down today and say, okay, what, what do we want from our finances? What do we want them to look like? What are our goals and how do we accomplish this together? 

Shay 23:48
So Financial Investopedia defines financial infidelity as when couples lie to each other about money. One could be taking on debt or spending more than they say they are. So how could we prevent this from happening or work through it? If it already has. 

Tanisha 24: 07
This is where we need to have open communication and we need to have, access to each other's things, you know? , I'm not a fan of, you know, oh, you can't see my phone and you know, I can't see your phone. I, you know, I, I can't have your logins. See your bank accounts. You can't have logins to my bank account. Since we're married, I'm a firm believer in what's, yours is mine and what's mine is yours and we need to approach it together. So, you know, while we. Often look at each other's bank accounts without the other person knowing we know that we have the option too. And I think that knowing that you have the option too, is something that will prevent you from doing anything crazy. But then also I don't have a reason to check my husband's bank accounts because he's very open with, okay, this is what I spent that was outside of the budget this week. I'm the same way. I'm like, you know, Hey, we needed this. So I went ahead and bought it. , So it's, we know that there's no sneaking around that's going on and that's really what it is you're sneaking. And, and when you start to have that thought of, I need to hide this, or I want to hide this, then that's when, okay. You need to have an open conversation with not only your spouse, but I also think like whether a, a therapist or a spiritual leader or something, because you know, those negative thoughts can Go, you know, I, I think of Jesus saying, when it comes to, was it adultery it's like, not, not only is the act of adultery considered adultery, but the thought of adultery, And so it's like, we need to really just change our mindset and really rethink and, going back to what Vanessa was saying earlier about the mindset of, I, me and not we and us. Because we tend to think of only ourselves and even quote in the scripture that you gave earlier from Philippians. You know, don't look at it as my money. Like it's not, or, you know, it's my credit card, it's my, this, you know, your family y'all have goals. There's things that you wanna achieve. And the way to achieve it is by coming together and doing that. And if you can think of everything as you know like we started. God's money first and then our money. Then you, you realize that a lot of the negative things that happen with money don't necessarily happen as often, you don't really have to have too many of the conversations. So like, I know obviously what we're talking about now is like, okay. Conversation after conversation, after conversation, but in reality, in, in the course of a marriage, if there's open communication, if there. Trust, and there is no secrets. You're not hiding anything. These conversations happen normally. And it's not something that you have to say, okay? Every day at 12 o'clock we need to check in with each other about money. you know, it's, it's not, it's like, you know, Hey, I, I drove by crumble cookies and I stopped and got me a sorry, you know, he's like, but it's, it's just being open and honest about it like that, you know, I, it definitely is a connection to like, I like the term financial infidelity because, you know, I know there's like a conversation now about like, what's really considered cheating and all of that and finances and hiding and all of that can have such an impact on Your life and your marriage and your credit and all of that, that it definitely needs to be a part of that conversation. So, we need to have the open communication, the trust, no secrets,  sharing of passwords, and all of that. And just making sure, we're comfortable. If, if you're not comfortable with any of that, then there's something deeper we need to talk about. 

Vanessa 27: 54
Exactly. Yeah. You know, this is something I, when I work with clients and I work with couples, you know, I often tell them to have a number in mind and, you know, if they wanna spend over a specific amount that needs to be discussed in the household. So whether it's $20 or $5,000, whatever it is that you guys decide on as a couple, there needs to be that number so that neither of you feel, you know, you were in that position where, oh, well, I didn't know. And I should have known because you already have that rule set. Early in my first marriage, I had this, this situation happen where, you know, He was military, we were moving to Germany and I still owed about $5,000 on my vehicle. And to ship it overseas, you had to have it paid off, and not have a note on your car. So I was scrambling trying to figure out how to pay, you know, this five grand, you know, being in my, my mid-twenties. I just quit my job to move overseas. And next thing I know my new. Ben had spent $5,000 on a toy for himself. Oh wow. And I was heartbroken at that moment because I was in this position where. I didn't know how I would have a car overseas and he's buying, you know, video game equipment. And it was one of those situations where he didn't think anything of it because he was used to, you know, having all this extra money and that's just what he did. It was him. And I was trying to figure out how to have a vehicle so we could, you know, eventually, be together.  And it was one of those things that really shaped the beginning of our marriage, you know, and not for the better. , so I totally understand this. I've been through it and it's, it's heartbreaking. you know, when you feel that you should have a partner to work through things with, and essentially you feel like they're working against you. So it's, you know, so if you can have those numbers and have those conversations like you said, conversations, conversations, conversations, get them out of the way early. So you know where you both stand. 

Shay 29:52
That's so good. That's so good. I was thinking about my years of marriage with my husband and the conversations we have. And if there's a big goal in mind, we like a big trip or a big purchase. We do communicate about it. , because of, I'm not gonna go do too deep into it, of money trauma from seeing what my parents struggles with money and just being. I'm trying to total line here, cause I don't wanna be disrespectful cause in can't say listen. , but it is just, just, I have some money traumas from childhood that I carried into my marriage, as I mentioned earlier. And therefore that is why we have separate accounts and ad joint account, as I said, and I don't have to say, you know, I'm gonna spend this cause I'm just gonna spend it because I just have, you know, we're still dealing with that even after 20 years of marriage. We have the conversations with big purchases, but, I don't be in his account. He don't be in my account. We just didn't a joint account. Honestly, he ain't even a joint account. Cause I be doing things he's like, you don't care. As long as the bills are paid, he's like, whatever, you know, and obviously, I'm the financial counselor for over 20 years. I'm very, very, very responsible. It takes me three years just to buy a new phone. Like I'm still have an iPhone eight. Everybody in the house has thirteens fifteens, twenties. I take 20 years to buy anything. So he doesn't have anything to worry about because of my money traumas I'm very, very cautious in spending. but I say all that to say, it's just you definitely being able to have those values is I keep, I mean, it's so important to be aligned with your values, starting with God, number one, and then whatever else is important because. Me taking care of the family is important and it's not important. I see that with clients. We're like, well, you're taking care of your mom. I didn't want her to take care of her mama. She, she chose to do that, you know, and like really that's her mom, like, you know, so these are the conversations and people struggles, people are having, because they're not aligned on their values and that can lead to infidelity, cuz they're like, well if you ain't gonna do it, I'm gonna do what I want. I'm gonna buy these shoes and I'll put 'em in my trunk and, and hide him until he comes when he leaves. And then I'll put 'em in the house. And then he is like, where do you get those shoes from? I hear these stories all the time. And I. I never had to deal with that, cuz I'm just gonna buy what I want. I mean, within reason and being responsible with it, my husband's not gonna be like where you get that from. You know what I mean?  so, I don't know. It's just, it's hard, but I understand why there's infidelity cuz again from the money traumas, but also from just not being aligned with the values. , but what if you are the breadwinner or you're the one making more money in the family? Does that mean that you get to make the majority of the financial decisions? I only for a period in our relationships made more money than my husband. He's always been the main breadwinner. , but. You know, been the majority person to make the financial decisions. So even though he makes more money, I mean, that's probably cause the responsibility in my experience, but even looking at some scriptures from that Ephesians 5: 23 says for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ the head of the church, his body and of which he is the savior. And first Corinthians 7:7 says, I wish that all of you were as I am, but each of. Has your own gift from God. One has this gift. Another has that. So who should have the majority of the financial decisions in the marriage? Is that based off your salary? 

Tanisha 33:17
No, I don't believe that now. I honestly haven't believed that my whole marriage now, the majority of our marriage, because I was better with finances, I was the one that handled them. And while I wouldn't say that I necessarily made the final decision. I pushed very, very hard for my decision to be the one that was made. and it wasn't until a couple years ago, honestly, that my mindset flipped because I focused more on faith and focused more on, you know, following what Christ wants and how,  Christ models, you know, his, with him and his church and how that's supposed to be with marriage. So right now, what we do, we work on it together. We talk about it together and if for whatever reason we cannot agree, then Chris, as the head of our household has the final say. I do not know of anything in the past couple of years where Chris has had to do that. it's either we pause and say, you know what, let's just kind of come back to this and see if our mindset changes. We either already agree, or we both are like disagree on it. But Chris knows and he's comfortable with the fact that he has the final say, I'm comfortable with the fact that he has the final say it kind of takes some pressure off of me as well, and honestly, sometimes my personality, especially because I do handle so much with him also being in the military, it's like, you're not even here most of the time to make certain decisions, but because I handle so much, sometimes I don't wanna make a decision at all. Like, I just want you to take the decision and you do it and run with it. And, It really helps to just say, okay, when it comes to everything you have the final say because you are the head of our household. And I am comfortable giving him that final say because I also know that Chris is plugged into Christ. So Chris isn't, it doesn't stop with him. He actually takes it to Christ, to God in order to make any decision that he wants to make. And because of that, I can trust his decision because. You know, even for whatever reason, if I don't trust Chris, which I do, I can trust God and I can trust Christ. And I know that he's gonna lead Chris however way he needs to lead Chris. So,  yeah, for us, it's, you know, Chris has the final say, it's not based on who makes more money at what? , Chris and I are very. Clear about what goals we have together and what we want to accomplish. And I know that that's not the case for everybody. We just so happen to be, very focused on the same things in life that we know, okay, these are the goals that we have, and this is what, you know, retirement will look for us. How do we make that happen? And because of that, we are able to kind of, live little bit more of a restrictive life now because we know, okay. Later we're able to do more than, we probably could have if we were just bawling out of control now. , but then we also know, because you know, I'm very big on mental health and self-care. So it's like, you know, if there's something that's gonna improve our mental health or improve our self-care, even improve our physical health, then I'm not gonna say no, we can't have that. 20 years in the future. I want us to live a certain life. We have to have a good quality of life now. So we keep that in mind, but because we know all of that about each other and, and it's, it's our family values. It's not even my value anymore, or Chris's values. It's our family values. That's how we're able to make decisions, and therefore that's how I'm able to completely trust that. If for whatever reason, I don't agree with, and Chris makes a different decision. I completely trust him. What's gonna happen is gonna happen.

And if I get the opportunity to say, I told you, so then I just get that opportunity. But, but no, yeah, I trust him a hundred percent. So I'm allowing him to have the final say and that's following my faith and I'm aligning with the word of God.

Vanessa 37:17
 I love what you said about, you know, knowing that he is plugged into God because I think that would give you that peace that you need to fully trust. But yeah, I think a lot of us, you know, we didn't have that or don't have that because we've not had those conversations. You know, I've been in the position where I was a military spouse. So there are lots of periods where you don't have a career or you're underemployed. , so you know, you're at home and your spouse is the breadwinner. And then I've been in positions where, you know, I was the breadwinner and I had to stay at home husband for a while. So, you know, those are very different aspects, but I think because I had been a stay-at-home spouse, I understood the value of having someone that stays at home and knows that they bring a lot of value to our family, even though they're not bringing in money. , you know, Washing the clothes and they're taking care of the bills and they're cleaning the house and they're doing all these things that, you know, would cost me, you know, outside of the marriage to have someone provide. , so I think knowing both sides of that kind of made me more aware of, okay, even though that person is not bringing in the money or I'm not bringing in the money, they bring value to the household. So it's a 50, 50 split, you know, to me. I don't care if someone makes, you know, five times what the other person makes, they're still bringing value. And it has to be a 50/50 partnership in my mind because it's not gonna work or they're gonna be, there's gonna be some kind of a resentment, if, if you're not included in that because one person always makes more, one person always makes less and one person gives more to the household. So, you know, even working with clients, I've seen this so many times where one person feels so undervalued because they're not bringing in that money, but they're giving so much of themselves in that time that the other person doesn't see. And that brings in that resentment too. So I feel like being the breadwinner, you know, yes good for you. , it's awesome to be the breadwinner for a household. , it also brings in a lot of responsibilities, because a lot falls on your shoulders. , but I think it's, you know, it's one of those things where it has to be 50/50, no matter what each person's bringing in. 

Shay 39:35
That's good. That's good. Cause I never thought of, I mean, we're always try to achieve 50/50, but sometimes it's 60/40, and sometimes it's, you know, feels like it's 80/20, you know you're and you're right when it gets to be like 80/20 or 90/10, you're like that resentment sits in like deep and you're like looking at 'em like, what are you doing? like, I need you to step. Get it going. I don't care. You make more money. Me. You need to be doing some more stuff. So I'm not trying to put my husband's business out on jp street, but I just see a lot of people feel that way about their spouses.  especially, and I'm not, I have to say this as a woman cause women, especially if we're working outside of the home and we're taking care of the home and we're taking care of the children or whatever it might be, you start to be like, okay, I'm doing everything. So, I need you to step it up. I need you to do more at home and all that. And it, I'm not just talking from my perspective. I know a lot of women that feel that way. And I know there's some men out there, but majority women I think filled up because we are still the primary caretaker of not only of ourselves, which we forget sometimes, but of our children and our husbands or spouses or partners. We are generally the primary caretaker, no matter situation. I mean, if you're a millionaire, The woman or the, I don't wanna say, woman, cuz it might not be a woman, but the you know, the primary caretaker is usually the person it's the primary. I mean, it's key. That's why we call 'em the primary they're there, they're at the helm. They're taking care of everything first and you know, and I think that's why it's important to be in the word and understanding the word that there needs to be a head of household. And to be like, there is a head of church with Christ, so you can understand your responsibility and your role. Would you agree Tanisha? 

Tanisha 41:17
I do, completely, and, and I think too when it comes to when we have that week or that month, or however long it lasts where it's a 90/10 or 80/20, then again, it's those conversations of, Hey, I'm not feeling the balance here, or I'm not feeling the harmony, cuz I, I feel like nothing can ever truly be balanced, but you know, It's one thing, if okay, this month, I know that you have a lot going on at work, which means I have to step it up at home and you know, or, I have a big project coming up and I need you to kind of step it up for me. Those conversations allow us to kind of just go back and forth and shift. Right. And hopefully, remove some of that resentment. But I also think a larger conversation that we need to have is the fact that we do focus so much on money and time in our resources are just as valuable. And, you know, so, whereas somebody's not able to put a lot of money into a certain situation, but they're able to give a lot of time and that's just as valuable or they're able to provide certain resources and that's just as valuable. And I think when we look at it from those aspects, we see that. That's where we kind of get more of that balance that we're seeking. And we're looking for, you know, we just do have to make sure that we are comfortable with our portion and what we actually are providing, and then make sure that our spouse is comfortable because you know, like you said, a lot of times women will forget to take care of themselves. They will take care of everybody else. , and I, I was a victim of that where I didn't, it wasn't about me. Like, oh, I could take care of myself. Like as long as I'm up and breathing, I can handle everything else, but it didn't work that way. Like my body couldn't handle it. And so it's, you know, taking a moment to, to check in with yourself, check-in with your spouse. Are we still on board? , and I think that that's also when you have those conversations and check-in with. Argue, are what we doing day to day or week to week, or month to month aligned with our goals. And if they are then, okay, we're good. Unless we have to make some changes, but if they're not, then we need to take some stuff off of our plate. , because a lot of times we will forget our goals and our plans and, and what we wanna do. And because we don't have that in mind, our day-to-day is just doing busy work or things that don't really, Matter like, you know, if your intent is to stay home and raise the children, but you're taking promotion after promotion, after promotion, because you're seeking at such a high dollar amount. Well, is your goal no longer to be a stay-at-home mom? And if that's the case, that's the conversation that you need to have or vice versa. If it's the dad that's staying at home, So it's just, you know, it, it's all a part of bigger conversations that need to be had before you get married after you get married and then continuously through marriage, like, I mean we're 10 years in and. I love being able to sit down with Chris and have conversations and just say like, are you good? Like, are you still okay with the marriage? Like, is there anything I need to do anything that you wanna do differently? You know? And just kind of checking in and making sure that we are okay, because. That has a trickle-down, effect on everything else, communication, finances, where you live, what job you have, and all of that. So we need to make sure that we're continuously having those conversations and being open and honest and trustworthy. 

Shay 44:53
Amen. 

Vanessa 44:54
Yeah. I love that you have those conversations because, you know, I feel like so many of us don't even know we need to have those until until we're in that place where we just wanna pull our hair out. , you know, I know like in my past too, how do you, how do you talk to a breadwinner? About your value when what you're providing, there's, there's no dollar amount to that, to that number or what you're giving. And you're feeling overwhelmed because you're giving so much, how do we have those conversations and those talks and get that person who's, you know, bringing in the money to understand that, you know, we're doing all this too, but you know, we're, we're not bringing in money, but we're bringing in, you know, stability in the home and we're bringing, you know, Something for our children to come home too. So they're not latchkey kids, that type of situation. How do we have that conversation with the person bringing in the money so that they can understand that there's value in being a homemaker too? 

Shay 45:52
That’s a really great question. Go ahead. Tanisha.

Tanisha 44:55 
I was gonna say disappear for a while.  no, you know, and I know it's difficult to do when you have children or pets or something that's counting on you, but if you were to just stop doing all of the things that you handle, because they're not, acknowledging your worth or, you know, letting you know that you provide value to the home, stop doing it. and. Shortly after it will be like, okay, I don't have any clothes to wear to work. What is going on? Or there was no food when I came home. And you know, when they start questioning those things or words have to start doing it for themselves, then that's when, like, okay,  you do provide me with a lot of value. Can you get started again? , but no, like we had to do that. I, I took an extended sabbatical. I liked a call where I kind of just traveled to different family members' houses because Chris and I just couldn't get along for a point of time and we really needed to reset. And, you know, I went to go see family members that I don't always get to see and get to, I was actually able to sit under some wisdom, some sit under some people that have been married for 20, 30 years. And, you know, so while I'm visiting them, they're also pouring wisdom into me about marriage. But then also, you know, Chris was back home having to take care of the house, the bills, our cat, and everything, and still go to work and all of that. And it, it wasn't fun for him. And I, I told him, I'm like, okay, well, when you. Value me, or if you don't, feel like what I provide is worth anything, then we're not on the same page and we're not gonna work. And, you know, I always joke with Chris and say that he wants to stay-at-home wife that works full-time.   he wants a homemaker, but then he also wants us to, you know, have be a two-paycheck home in order for us to achieve certain goals quicker. And, you know, we've had to figure out what that balance looks like and how. You know, me as a wife have to figure out, okay, what is it that you really want? Because this is what you're telling me. And I don't, I can't understand it, but that's also where, you know we try, if not every week, every other week to just kind of sit down, check in with each other, how has your week been? Was there something that I could do to kind of be a better wife or a better husband? Is there something that we could have done around the house to kind of make it more of a sanctuary for us? And, when we have those conversations, it actually gives us the time and the opportunity to be truthful with each other. Cause I think what makes, certain conversations. It's the starting point. Like, how do you go up to somebody? And like you said, as the breadwinner, how do I walk up to you and say, Hey, you know, I provide all this value, where if we have a, a sit-down moment where we're having dinner, maybe, you know, the TV's on in the background or whatever, and we know that this is our times. To bring anything up to the table. Then we have those conversations and just say, Hey, you know, this week I really felt like you didn't value what I was able to do at home. And you know, I, you weren't eating my food and you didn't care that the laundry was done. , And that allows, I mean, and they kind of have to sit there because it's usually at agreed upon. We both are open and you know, will listen. And, you know, they have to sit there and they have to listen and then, then you allow them to respond and say your feelings. Because another thing that I've noticed is what I perceive or what I think that Chris is thinking usually is not what he's thinking. So, yeah, the whole other topic on marriage. Right? So but Consistent conversations being open and then, you know, allowing the other person to be truthful with what they're speaking and saying, Hey, this is what not, is not working with me. But I mean, we, I think we've all seen the statistic where it's like the stay-at-home wife or stay-at-home person, their value, like if they were to get paid for all the stuff that they did.

Shay 49:52
Yeah. Hundreds and thousands a year. I know. And I agree with that. Like, action speaks louder than worse when I started working, you know, and leaving home. Going on my own TDYs as a military, federal employee, my husband would see having a young daughter at home, the work. It was funny, cuz I, I would make sure her hair was done. Cuz you know, as a black woman, you ain't gonna mess up my daughter's hair. So I would always make sure my daughter's hair was done, but everything else was up to him. And so he, he, you know, I, he never would say that you know, oh man, it was hard, but I could tell, cause I would come home and the house wasn't clean like it was supposed to be. You know, Alana, I think she started wearing multiple the clothes I was put, you know, just all kinds of things was crazy. And they was like, when they, when they when I would come home, I would see like a sigh, like, cause I would leave like a week or so and come back and like, oh, okay. And I would come home and clean and like, yeah, y'all weren't living like you were when I was here. so, and even recently I got super busy. With the business and everything. And like on Monday I usually wash clothes. Do you know, on this weekend? And my husband's like, I ain't got no underwear. I'm like, actually, you do have underwear. They're just not the ones you like to wear. Cause I ain't got around to wash it yet. So those kinda things, you know, they see, he's like, oh man, I really appreciate you. You know, now he says it more than he ever did because he sees the value.  , that being at home provides, and especially during the pandemic where you're taking care of the house, cuz you're home and cooking more and all that. I'm like, Aw man, I'm setting the standard. Does. Good. I don't want you to get used to this yeah. So, but yeah, it is more than just money. It's definitely the time and the resources as well. 

Vanessa 51:34
Yeah. I remember having a conversation. Gosh, maybe three or four years in my marriage. , and my ex-husband was in a command. Position with the military. So he was super busy all the time. , never saw him, but I was working full-time and then I was a full-time master student. And then I was doing all those volunteer positions that as military spouses, you know, we get roped into doing. And I remember having the conversation with him and I was like, look, I said, I can't do everything at one, you know, anymore, because I'm doing all these other things. So something's gotta give, so either you. You know, need to either help me clean the house and keep things up or you need to pay for it. So I was able to kind of hit him in the wallet because he wouldn't do it himself. So I would take out every week, I would take out a specific amount for cleaning. , you know, so he wouldn't have as much spending money every week and at worked for a while.   and, but I think we have to get creative sometimes too, to figure out what works for us, because the one, you know, one thing will not work for everybody. 

Shay 52:35
Exactly. Exactly. Well in wrapping up, I would love us to still, you know, figure out how, or at least share some wisdom on how do we come together in marriages or partnerships to accomplish financial goals and be financially secure. Does that look like just praying, compromising commitment, communication seeking wise counsel or a combination of all of that in Philippians 4:19, a very popular verse it says, and my God will meet all your needs record to the riches of his glory in Christ? Jesus. So in our final thoughts tonight or today, Tanisha, what do you think about that?

Tanisha 53:11
I say all of the above plus more, so obviously, because you know of our faith, we always want to lead with, prayer and just allowing God to speak to us and specifically through his word. So as being comfortable and understanding what his word says about money, and then also, seeking wise counsel. So people that have, either gone through something that you've gone through before. So, you know, my mentors. Our military spouses, people in faith, people that have been married for a very long time and they're able to speak life into us, but then also able to, to coach us, if things go wrong, And then, communication with each other and making sure that we know what each other wants. We are setting goals for each other. , like, you know, here's my goal as a wife to you, and here's your goal as a husband to me, but then here's our goal as a family. , and then check-ins to make sure we're hitting that goal, hitting those goals.  and also making sure that our goals have not changed mm-hmm, because circumstances could change and therefore what we need and what we want can change and having, consistent check-ins with each other, just to make sure that we're good, can really help alleviate the awkward conversations and no longer make the money conversation taboo. , and then I also, one step further would be sharing the information with others. Whether that's future generations, whether that's you being the wise counsel to other people, or your community, or your group of friends and just letting people know that, it doesn't have to be. Secretive. We don't have to, like, you know, we don't have to get into the details. I don't even know how much money you make to the dollar. But knowing that, you know, this is how you and your husband handle finances may give me and my husband an opportunity to, you know, do something different or, fix something that we're struggling with. So it's, also, you know, providing the wise counsel that you've received, and passing that on to others.

Vanessa 55:26
Yeah, I, you know, I think that's so true. And I think it's, you know, we have to stop thinking about ourselves first, you know, and look at us as, as a team and a couple, and I think that's something we need to really pass on to others. And as you were saying, just, you know, talk about it, let's talk about it. It's okay to have these conversations and stop making money and marriage taboo. , and look at those generations, my grandparents were married for 70 years and you know, they lived on one income and they lived very well. And my grandfather is 94 and he still, you know, lives on a limited income, but he lives well because he gives too. , so looking at those people and, and taking those examples and, and using that in our lives. But I think it's really just stop being me and looking at us as a couple. And first and foremost, 

Shay 56:15
Wow, that's beautiful. A great way to end. So thank you, ladies. For this episode, it was amazing talking to you both about managing money and a marriage. What a conversation. I'm sure we're gonna have many of these conversations throughout this podcast. And our next episode is self-control and spending. And if you wanna tune in, we are on all or where every major podcast directory out there, but you can also email us if you have any questions or recommendations for other episodes at yahweh@crusaders4change.org. You can also find us on our website at crusaders4change.org. Thank you for joining us today. And we look forward to talking to you soon.